Tai Sabaki

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Italian Stallion Newbie 18 posts
Do any of you traditional Ju Jitsuka know of the "Tai Sabaki" ? And is it the TJJ equivalent of kata in karate.
Ž„‚Í•\–Ê‚Ì‘Å‚Â ( I will punch
steve Resident 217 posts
Tai sabaki basically just means body movement / co-ordination. e.g. if the tai sabaki is incorrect, then delivery of your action may not be very good. Kata may be a good way in which to practice and polish your tai sabaki for a set move or series of moves.

Aikido people use the phrase tai sabaki a lot when describing their movement patterns around an opponent when setting them up for a wrist lock or a throw.
"Its not the size of the dog i
Italian Stallion Newbie 18 posts
I see, so tai sabaki just describes movement. But does traditional JJ have any kata for testing? Or is testing based mainly on performing techniques?
Ž„‚Í•\–Ê‚Ì‘Å‚Â ( I will punch
Robsco 1319 posts
Everything always comes down to the club/instructor.

Where I trained we only did Kata at around Brown Belt, mind you, that was just for the weapons stuff.

Isn't tai sabaki that crazy ninja stuff (sneaking around someones back as they blink) we've chatted about before? Anyone else remember?
The Admin Guy
Bee Regular 33 posts
BJJA. We do Kata From Novice, Stance Kata at Green. Blocking Kata at Blue.....I`ve just run out of experience. I appreciate some of you lads don`t have much time for Kata. I just look at it as part of the jig-saw. Discipline must be involved in any skill that is worth anything. You loose the discipline and you are on a slippery slope.
"Bee"
Bren Addict 123 posts
My lot did a major syllabus reshuffle a few months ago and we now have a weapons kata on every belt. Yellow = Jo staff, Orange = single Nunchaku etc. It's a bit of fun and something a bit different for people but it now leaves me with rather a lot to learn to grade up to brown&white :-O. Most of them have been cut down to between 20 and 30 moves but still........And then for dan grades (a long way off yet, phew) I'll get stuck into learning full katas - upwards of 100 moves I believe.

What's with these cursed Sai things, I suspect they have a mind of their own and are conspiring against me.:-X
Robsco 1319 posts
Hehe, I've always seen Kata's as something you see in Karate Kid, not that ya did, but it seems from that kind of background.

That's probably the only reason I see Ju-Jitsu clubs/instructors doing it, cos in 'real' fighting terms, it doesn't mean much.

I'd still love to learn some, just to look fancy and as-if I knew what I was doing, just like most people do I guess - no-one there to mess up your flow of great techniques.

As always, martial arts is what you want it to be, most people don't really want to be some hard-nut on the streets, just the confidence to deal with situations, and aslong as you've practised enough, most people would be fine, kata's or sparring, just practise, practise, practise, oh, and practise some more.
The Admin Guy
Italian Stallion Newbie 18 posts
Speaking of pracitce Robsco, word on the street is that you quit TJJ...but why? And have u studied BJJ? Just wondering ( i wanna see the rest of that syllabus:-)))
Ž„‚Í•\–Ê‚Ì‘Å‚Â ( I will punch
Robsco 1319 posts
I 'quit' TJJ once I got to Brown Belt, Black didn't seem that interesting, plus I'd kinda got what I wanted out of the art, once I got to that levelt the belts didn't mean that much anymore, so it was just the training I was there for, not really aiming for the belts no more.

I was teaching a regular 4-14yr olds class each week and that was fine, but then started training in BJJ more and more, got Blue Belt (1 stripe) under Royce so it really went on from there.

Now I'm up in Newcastle, but not been training for about a year now, really need to get my arse into gear, and working upto that.
The Admin Guy
andy Resident 729 posts
KATA are pointless!!!

and if you want to question my credentials in both TJJ and BJJ you are more than welcome
"no weapon formed against me shall prosper"
Italian Stallion Newbie 18 posts
I wont question ur credentials...but what the hell does that quote MEAN?:-))
Ž„‚Í•\–Ê‚Ì‘Å‚Â ( I will punch
andy Resident 729 posts
errm, if you cant understand the quote then there is no point trying to explain what it means
"no weapon formed against me shall prosper"
steve Resident 217 posts
IMO kata are only of any use in the practice of Iaido 'the art of drawing the sword'. This is because Iai (sword) technique is intricate in the 'drawing' of the blade, but then by the very nature of the weapon delivery is a singular activity (a fatal cut) or at most duality (a parry with the blade followed by a fatal cut). There is no necessity for multiple moves, parrys, cuts and therfore kata serves sword practice very well. By its nature it cannot be practiced with a resistive opponent, as there is no resistance, either the fatal cut is delivered - opponent dead, or cut misses opponent and he instead delivers the fatal cut. Serious stuff:-|
"Its not the size of the dog i
andy Resident 729 posts
train with wooden sticks and armour - kendo!!

"no weapon formed against me shall prosper"
steve Resident 217 posts
Wooden sticks on body armour do not cut, and so are not a realistic interpretation of sword, they provide a sporting application which although being skillful, testing and fun, is not truly representative.

Iaido can only be practiced in Kata...traditionally the actual cuts can be practiced to simulate resistance (of the blade cutting and being 'pulled through' flesh & bone) by using bamboo upstands.:-O
"Its not the size of the dog i
andy Resident 729 posts
have to disagree
"no weapon formed against me shall prosper"
steve Resident 217 posts
Andy,

Our opinions usually differ, though our knowledge is probably fairly similar....anyway I'm looking forward to getting schooled by you at Roger's seminar in Bolton if you're coming, although I think you will notice that I've improved too since that distant night at Sheffield:-D
"Its not the size of the dog i
andy Resident 729 posts
not as much as me
"no weapon formed against me shall prosper"
Italian Stallion Newbie 18 posts
ok, enough with the personal quarrels guys...just out of interest do any of u use a makiwara?
Ž„‚Í•\–Ê‚Ì‘Å‚Â ( I will punch
andy Resident 729 posts
no
"no weapon formed against me shall prosper"

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