BBJ aint crap

Author	Comments
greywolf Newbie 9 posts	Saturday 17th July 2004 at 22:24 I was interested in viewing a BBJ tourney. I watched some film from this web site and from other places. I was not impressed. What would a BBJ practioner do if faced with someone not wearing a gee. I know yousay you have seen different in the UFC's but these fights are monitored and are broke up if people start to get to hurt. I did not see any strikes or kicks in the films I watched. Maybe I just dont understand the rules of the tourney. However why would you feel proud of winning at something like that. It defeats the purpose of fight like you train and train like you fight. Would a BBJ practioner be competent enough to win in a street battle with an experienced fighter. MMMMMMMMMMMMMMM makes you wonder. Cobie Wells Cobie Wells
Robsco 1319 posts	Saturday 17th July 2004 at 22:36 BJJ is practised with and without the Gi, so when fighting someone without a Gi, it doesn't matter. --------- Robsco! 'I'm sure your style is impressive on other planets, however, your weak link is that this is Earth' The Admin Guy
nTm Newbie 11 posts	Sunday 18th July 2004 at 03:49 I have seen footage of Carlos Gracie, and BJJ is known for it's participation in no-holds-barred types of tourny's. They sure did strike when I saw them, and they were hitting each other in the face. But striking isn't the art of jujitsu, ground work is. It is pretty hard to pound somebody int he head or face with them standing up ready to fight, but how about when you have them in the mount or scarf hold, how easy is it then? Just learn to grapple first then work your way towards fighting. Any jujitsu style is good. "If instead of fighting with him you say to your enemy, 'You have won' and bow before him, that is the biggest deed in the world." "If instead of fighting with h
greywolf Newbie 9 posts	Sunday 18th July 2004 at 14:51 Robosco, i appreciate the thought, however those who fight in the UFC also train in other arts. My question still remains. I do speak from experience. I am 2nd degree in combat Jujitsu and we train to strike in these different positions. You have to train this to be a well rounded fighter. nTm, If you think strikes are not part of jujitsu then you should rethink your choice of schools to practice. I have the feeling that you have the same misconception that most have towards jujitsu. They feel that it is just a ground fighting art. This is wrong. It is all the above plus more. It incorporates Karate, Aikido and Judo. And the true practicioner will build on this strong base with other styles. Cobie Wells Cobie Wells
nTm Newbie 11 posts	Sunday 18th July 2004 at 15:38 No you misinterpreted, we do learn to strike, that is what randori is. Sorry that I came across that way, I was just referring to the BJJ system. I meant that it is jst much easier to take somebody to the ground and work ont he while on the ground easier than it is standing up. Kind of like ruas vale tudo, it incorporates striking, and hard striking at that, into ground work and ground applications. Nonetheless, sticking to the topic, I think any style or art of jujitsu is oneinthesame, and they are all equal with their own strengths and weaknesses. "If instead of fighting with him you say to your enemy, 'You have won' and bow before him, that is the biggest deed in the world." "If instead of fighting with h
Robsco 1319 posts	Sunday 18th July 2004 at 16:05 Greywolf, what exactly is your point? and what tournament was you watching? BJJ, Vale Tudo, what? If you're talking about a straight BJJ or submission wrestling tournament, then you did not understand the rules. I can't see what your point is. I don't think many people who train to fight stick with one art, so often it is a mixture of BJJ, Wrestling, Muay Thai, etc. to get all the best part from each style. No-one enters fighting competitions or would expect to win a fight on the street with just one style under their belt because you don't know what's going to happen, so you need to be comfortable standing striking, takedowns and takedown defence, and finally ground work. --------- Robsco! 'I'm sure your style is impressive on other planets, however, your weak link is that this is Earth' The Admin Guy
steve Resident 217 posts	Sunday 18th July 2004 at 17:05 I've posted this many times before...Jiujitsu as a rounded translation = adaptable / pliable / all encompassing fighting. Prior to the turn of the last century the japanese used the term juijitsu to refer to all fighting form....there was'nt the fragmantation into differing aspects that there is today. With the introduction of judo as a concept (effectively to make free fighting safe to practice full on by introduction of limitations/rules) the striking was limited to kata (form practice), with the throwing / locking / strangles evaluated and selected to a specific allowable & most importantly safe set of techniques for Randori (free practice) Practicioners who had favoured the striking dedicated themselves to the striking kata and then progressively started to develop a safe method of Randori for strikes / kicking. Thus Juijitsu had split from being all encompassing into two parts When judo / jiujitsu arrived in Brazil the groundwork aspect of was latched upon and has been developed and practiced to near perfection and is now termed BJJ. Meanwhile in becoming a mainstream sport Judo has marginalised its original groundwork part and concentrated into the modern 'throwing favoured' olympic sport of today. In summary all martial artists practice juijitsu, they just concentrate on specific aspects of it (because its scope is so vast you could never in a lifetime master all parts of it). Cross trainers just learn bits of each part to suit their own sporting need i.e. to compete NHB. ps. sorry for the long post again Robsco but it always bugs me when people cannot appreciate individual martial arts for what they are and always think that it should be about being the most devastatingly effective in a street brawl type scenario. "Its not the size of the dog in the fight, its the size of the fight in the dog" "Its not the size of the dog i
Robsco 1319 posts	Sunday 18th July 2004 at 17:18 No probs Steve, I even made it through your whole post. Still not sure what exactly Greywolfs point is. --------- Robsco! 'I'm sure your style is impressive on other planets, however, your weak link is that this is Earth' The Admin Guy
greywolf Newbie 9 posts	Sunday 18th July 2004 at 21:14 There was no point to be made and I agree with all the above. As I stated I may have misunderstood or fell into the trap, with everybody bragging about BJJ. I love the tech. of BJJ but could not find the link or why it is so popular so I began to research and if what Steve says is true ( which I know for a fact it is ) then please stop the hype it destroys what the ancestors of the arts worked to achieve. Thats what caused the arts to seperate in the first place. One person seperating what he does best then attempting to cash in on it. Sorry for whoever I may have pissed off or caused concern. Just trying to make conversation and I do respect BJJ. Sorry for the long post. Cobie Wells Cobie Wells

Author

Comments

Newbie

9 posts

Saturday 17th July 2004 at 22:24

I was interested in viewing a BBJ tourney. I watched some film from this web site and from other places. I was not impressed. What would a BBJ practioner do if faced with someone not wearing a gee. I know yousay you have seen different in the UFC's but these fights are monitored and are broke up if people start to get to hurt. I did not see any strikes or kicks in the films I watched.

Maybe I just dont understand the rules of the tourney. However why would you feel proud of winning at something like that. It defeats the purpose of fight like you train and train like you fight. Would a BBJ practioner be competent enough to win in a street battle with an experienced fighter. MMMMMMMMMMMMMMM makes you wonder. Cobie Wells

Cobie Wells

Robsco

1319 posts

Saturday 17th July 2004 at 22:36

BJJ is practised with and without the Gi, so when fighting someone without a Gi, it doesn't matter. --------- Robsco! 'I'm sure your style is impressive on other planets, however, your weak link is that this is Earth'

The Admin Guy

nTm

Newbie

11 posts

Sunday 18th July 2004 at 03:49

I have seen footage of Carlos Gracie, and BJJ is known for it's participation in no-holds-barred types of tourny's. They sure did strike when I saw them, and they were hitting each other in the face. But striking isn't the art of jujitsu, ground work is. It is pretty hard to pound somebody int he head or face with them standing up ready to fight, but how about when you have them in the mount or scarf hold, how easy is it then? Just learn to grapple first then work your way towards fighting. Any jujitsu style is good. "If instead of fighting with him you say to your enemy, 'You have won' and bow before him, that is the biggest deed in the world."

"If instead of fighting with h

greywolf

Newbie

9 posts

Sunday 18th July 2004 at 14:51

Robosco, i appreciate the thought, however those who fight in the UFC also train in other arts. My question still remains. I do speak from experience. I am 2nd degree in combat Jujitsu and we train to strike in these different positions. You have to train this to be a well rounded fighter.

nTm,

If you think strikes are not part of jujitsu then you should rethink your choice of schools to practice. I have the feeling that you have the same misconception that most have towards jujitsu. They feel that it is just a ground fighting art. This is wrong. It is all the above plus more. It incorporates Karate, Aikido and Judo. And the true practicioner will build on this strong base with other styles. Cobie Wells

Cobie Wells

nTm

Newbie

11 posts

Sunday 18th July 2004 at 15:38

No you misinterpreted, we do learn to strike, that is what randori is. Sorry that I came across that way, I was just referring to the BJJ system. I meant that it is jst much easier to take somebody to the ground and work ont he while on the ground easier than it is standing up. Kind of like ruas vale tudo, it incorporates striking, and hard striking at that, into ground work and ground applications.

Nonetheless, sticking to the topic, I think any style or art of jujitsu is oneinthesame, and they are all equal with their own strengths and weaknesses. "If instead of fighting with him you say to your enemy, 'You have won' and bow before him, that is the biggest deed in the world."

"If instead of fighting with h

Robsco

1319 posts

Sunday 18th July 2004 at 16:05

Greywolf, what exactly is your point? and what tournament was you watching? BJJ, Vale Tudo, what?

If you're talking about a straight BJJ or submission wrestling tournament, then you did not understand the rules.

I can't see what your point is.

I don't think many people who train to fight stick with one art, so often it is a mixture of BJJ, Wrestling, Muay Thai, etc. to get all the best part from each style.

No-one enters fighting competitions or would expect to win a fight on the street with just one style under their belt because you don't know what's going to happen, so you need to be comfortable standing striking, takedowns and takedown defence, and finally ground work. --------- Robsco! 'I'm sure your style is impressive on other planets, however, your weak link is that this is Earth'

The Admin Guy

steve

Resident

217 posts

Sunday 18th July 2004 at 17:05

I've posted this many times before...Jiujitsu as a rounded translation = adaptable / pliable / all encompassing fighting.

Prior to the turn of the last century the japanese used the term juijitsu to refer to all fighting form....there was'nt the fragmantation into differing aspects that there is today.

With the introduction of judo as a concept (effectively to make free fighting safe to practice full on by introduction of limitations/rules) the striking was limited to kata (form practice), with the throwing / locking / strangles evaluated and selected to a specific allowable & most importantly safe set of techniques for Randori (free practice)

Practicioners who had favoured the striking dedicated themselves to the striking kata and then progressively started to develop a safe method of Randori for strikes / kicking.

Thus Juijitsu had split from being all encompassing into two parts

When judo / jiujitsu arrived in Brazil the groundwork aspect of was latched upon and has been developed and practiced to near perfection and is now termed BJJ.

Meanwhile in becoming a mainstream sport Judo has marginalised its original groundwork part and concentrated into the modern 'throwing
favoured' olympic sport of today.

In summary all martial artists practice juijitsu, they just concentrate on specific aspects of it (because its scope is so vast you could never in a lifetime master all parts of it).

Cross trainers just learn bits of each part to suit their own sporting need i.e. to compete NHB.

ps. sorry for the long post again Robsco but it always bugs me when people cannot appreciate individual martial arts for what they are and always think that it should be about being the most devastatingly effective in a street brawl type scenario. "Its not the size of the dog in the fight, its the size of the fight in the dog"

"Its not the size of the dog i

Robsco

1319 posts

Sunday 18th July 2004 at 17:18

No probs Steve, I even made it through your whole post.

Still not sure what exactly Greywolfs point is. --------- Robsco! 'I'm sure your style is impressive on other planets, however, your weak link is that this is Earth'

The Admin Guy

greywolf

Newbie

9 posts

Sunday 18th July 2004 at 21:14

There was no point to be made and I agree with all the above. As I stated I may have misunderstood or fell into the trap, with everybody bragging about BJJ. I love the tech. of BJJ but could not find the link or why it is so popular so I began to research and if what Steve says is true ( which I know for a fact it is ) then please stop the hype it destroys what the ancestors of the arts worked to achieve. Thats what caused the arts to seperate in the first place. One person seperating what he does best then attempting to cash in on it. Sorry for whoever I may have pissed off or caused concern.

Just trying to make conversation and I do respect BJJ. Sorry for the long post. Cobie Wells

Cobie Wells