MT v BJJ - Ultimate Jujitsu

MT v BJJ

Author	Comments
Nathan Addict 175 posts	Friday 27th May 2005 at 14:05 In the ring, BJJ is probably the best MA, it's been proven. But on the street, do you think Thai Boxing or even Boxing would be a better MA, as it's kinda foolish to take a street fight to the floor? I know this is a controversial question, and no doubts I'm gonna get flamed, but hey! _____________________________
andy Resident 729 posts	Friday 27th May 2005 at 23:43 carry a gun "no weapon formed against me shall prosper"
Bren Addict 123 posts	Saturday 28th May 2005 at 00:07 One on One, BJJ. One v. a mob, do what andy says and make it a big one!!!
Robsco 1319 posts	Saturday 28th May 2005 at 00:53 In a street fight it's not always you that wants the fight on the ground, but over 90% of them end up there, that's why BJJ became so popular. No-one wants it there, but what's better? knowing BJJ or not knowing it? The way I see it, a street fight starts with punches and kicks, etc. and we could all go on for hours and hours with that, beating eachother senseless (unless someone gets a lucky hit) but what happens then? You'll prob end up on the floor, so best to know what you're doing there and put the guy to sleep right? I'm sure Steve will have someting to say about the hidden art of poking someone in the eye, as-if that's not gonna get your attacker more rowled-up to beat you down some more, and in what position are you gonna get that nifty eye-poke in the first place? oh, on the gound! :-p The Admin Guy
Dave Addict 183 posts	Saturday 28th May 2005 at 12:51 A very old argument indeed!:-)) Nathan dont listen to all the BJJ people tell you BJJ is best for the street when the majority of em aint been in a real street fight and are simply reading lines from a book or using quotes by others that have been over used for decades. BJJ is a great art with loads to learn but its not good enuf on its own to cater for the street. I find it very funny when Rob says that poking eyes and biting only makes someone angrier and these techniques arent effective when fighting. That proves to me 100% that hes never done it to a person or had it done to him as his outlook would be very different if hed experienced either recieving or giving eye pokes and bites! Boxing is great and so is thai boxing and if you want to learn how to strike learn both. And around we go again.:-)) Postman Pat, Postman Pat, Post
Robsco 1319 posts	Saturday 28th May 2005 at 14:02 hehe, some people love this discussion far too much. All i was saying is that it's a bit silly to just learn, say, thai boxing and feel comfortable on the streets, cos one day you'll get into trouble and end up on the floor. Learn everything, MMA has kinda shown what mixes works, and if ya wanna poke someone in the eye, go ahead, but i can't see someone doing it and the other guy saying "okay, i give up, don't hurt me anymore, i'm sorry" :-)) I'm still trying to imagine how Dave would even get the chance to poke a Black Belt in BJJ in the eye, and that's my point, imagine all you know how to do is poke someone in the eye, and your attacker knows every art, then start to build up which arts you wish you knew in order to defeat them. Or even some fool on the street starting on you, do you try and get that sneaky eye-poke hoping it'll incapacitate them, or control him and beat him down? I know what i'd go for. Little things like eye-pokes aren't the sort of thing you can train for, so if it works, well done, but I'd rather learn skills I can practice over and over and get better at. Is it just me that thinks that makes sense? :-O The Admin Guy
steve Resident 217 posts	Saturday 28th May 2005 at 21:47 Just to be contraversial & probably wind up Andy and Rob. Royce's BJJ...awesome....yet his book on street self defence is very questionable, the standing stuff he shows in it is very similar to TMA's inpractical techniques / suppositions. "Its not the size of the dog i
Robsco 1319 posts	Sunday 29th May 2005 at 03:24 I'd just find out the sorts of people/organisations that go to the Gracie's for training, police, army, etc., that should give you an idea on what works in certain situations. Not got the book myself, but when I had a flick through I'm sure I didn't see any eye-poking, maybe I'm wrong, but shocking all the same, why would they leave out such a fundamental attack? :-)) The Admin Guy
friendlyfiend Newbie 3 posts	Tuesday 31st May 2005 at 03:26 I've visited this site for quite awhile, just never really got around to posting. It's a damn good site, nice technique section and what not. First off, I'm considerably better on the ground than stand-up. I love Jiu-Jitsu and the ground game but in response to the actually initial thread question he said on the street. Taking this into account I would use wrestling/bjj to get up back to my feet safetly if I were to slip, or otherwise end up on the ground on the street. No offense meant to anyone but to solely depend on Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu (or any other primarily ground based martial art) is putting your own life in jeopardy, if the situation ever happens to you. I will say it is very useful to know on the street, but to take someone down in an unpredictable situation, such as a club, is acting out of a misplaced faith in one believe system of combat. I'm sure everyone has heard this before, but if you take the fight to the ground in a situation where you have no friends with you and it is crowded what is to stop the guys friend from booting you in the head with a steel toe boot? Police train BJJ because they cannot legally damage a person in most cases with boxing/muay thai and they need to control the situation. If a Police Officer eyegouged someone, what do you think would happen to his job and the area he worked for? To say eye-gouges do not work is ridiculous and misinformed, they can also be trained. There is a difference to just poking at someones eye and knowing how to take it out if your life depended on it. I've seen several guys take a person down in a club only to get jumped by 3-4 of the person's friends. I have seen this several times. I believe in BJJ on the street, but by no means in Muay Thai ineffective, or less effective. I have defended use of guard on the street (If you fall or get taken down. You can reverse position or get to your feet or quickly choke the guy out and get up) but I am sure we can all agree none of us would ever consider it a decent idea to jump guard in a crowded nightclub or in another true streetfight situation. I agree in most cases biting would be ineffective on the street, with the adrenaline pump. Hell I've since guys take brutal shit and not even react due to adrenaline or angeldust/pcp. But believe me in a life or death situation and you really want to go for that eye he isn't going to have time to say "ouch that hurts I give up" the street is not a schoolyard fight like being in 1st grade. But you damn well better believe if you take his eye out and all he knows is he can only see out of one eye that is going to get in his head and disrupt his attack. Also. I don't know how poking a BJJ black belt in the eye at all relates to a street fight.. If you find yourself in a street fight with a BJJ black belt or any other decently trained individual you are having a nightmare or just EXTREMELY badluck. You should never be "comfortable" on the street to the point of letting your guard down out of arrogance, but you should also not be afraid to the point of not reacting quick enough and getting seriously injured/killed. For the street you want Muay Thai/Boxing for multiple attackers, wrestling to avoid going down, BJJ to get up safetly. And it would be wise to train the Filipino knife fighting/weapon arts. And yes, carrying a gun wouldn't be such a bad idea aswell.
Nathan Addict 175 posts	Tuesday 31st May 2005 at 09:30 Good Post! - nice one! _____________________________

Author

Comments

Addict

175 posts

Friday 27th May 2005 at 14:05

In the ring, BJJ is probably the best MA, it's been proven. But on the street, do you think Thai Boxing or even Boxing would be a better MA, as it's kinda foolish to take a street fight to the floor?

I know this is a controversial question, and no doubts I'm gonna get flamed, but hey!

_____________________________

andy

Resident

729 posts

Friday 27th May 2005 at 23:43

carry a gun

"no weapon formed against me shall prosper"

Bren

Addict

123 posts

Saturday 28th May 2005 at 00:07

One on One, BJJ.

One v. a mob, do what andy says and make it a big one!!!

Robsco

1319 posts

Saturday 28th May 2005 at 00:53

In a street fight it's not always you that wants the fight on the ground, but over 90% of them end up there, that's why BJJ became so popular. No-one wants it there, but what's better? knowing BJJ or not knowing it?

The way I see it, a street fight starts with punches and kicks, etc. and we could all go on for hours and hours with that, beating eachother senseless (unless someone gets a lucky hit) but what happens then? You'll prob end up on the floor, so best to know what you're doing there and put the guy to sleep right?

I'm sure Steve will have someting to say about the hidden art of poking someone in the eye, as-if that's not gonna get your attacker more rowled-up to beat you down some more, and in what position are you gonna get that nifty eye-poke in the first place? oh, on the gound! :-p

The Admin Guy

Dave

Addict

183 posts

Saturday 28th May 2005 at 12:51

A very old argument indeed!:-))

Nathan dont listen to all the BJJ people tell you BJJ is best for the street when the majority of em aint been in a real street fight and are simply reading lines from a book or using quotes by others that have been over used for decades. BJJ is a great art with loads to learn but its not good enuf on its own to cater for the street.

I find it very funny when Rob says that poking eyes and biting only makes someone angrier and these techniques arent effective when fighting. That proves to me 100% that hes never done it to a person or had it done to him as his outlook would be very different if hed experienced either recieving or giving eye pokes and bites!

Boxing is great and so is thai boxing and if you want to learn how to strike learn both.

And around we go again.:-))

Postman Pat, Postman Pat, Post

Robsco

1319 posts

Saturday 28th May 2005 at 14:02

hehe, some people love this discussion far too much.

All i was saying is that it's a bit silly to just learn, say, thai boxing and feel comfortable on the streets, cos one day you'll get into trouble and end up on the floor.

Learn everything, MMA has kinda shown what mixes works, and if ya wanna poke someone in the eye, go ahead, but i can't see someone doing it and the other guy saying "okay, i give up, don't hurt me anymore, i'm sorry" :-))

I'm still trying to imagine how Dave would even get the chance to poke a Black Belt in BJJ in the eye, and that's my point, imagine all you know how to do is poke someone in the eye, and your attacker knows every art, then start to build up which arts you wish you knew in order to defeat them.

Or even some fool on the street starting on you, do you try and get that sneaky eye-poke hoping it'll incapacitate them, or control him and beat him down? I know what i'd go for.

Little things like eye-pokes aren't the sort of thing you can train for, so if it works, well done, but I'd rather learn skills I can practice over and over and get better at.

Is it just me that thinks that makes sense? :-O

The Admin Guy

steve

Resident

217 posts

Saturday 28th May 2005 at 21:47

Just to be contraversial & probably wind up Andy and Rob.

Royce's BJJ...awesome....yet his book on street self defence is very questionable, the standing stuff he shows in it is very similar to TMA's inpractical techniques / suppositions.

"Its not the size of the dog i

Robsco

1319 posts

Sunday 29th May 2005 at 03:24

I'd just find out the sorts of people/organisations that go to the Gracie's for training, police, army, etc., that should give you an idea on what works in certain situations.

Not got the book myself, but when I had a flick through I'm sure I didn't see any eye-poking, maybe I'm wrong, but shocking all the same, why would they leave out such a fundamental attack? :-))

The Admin Guy

friendlyfiend

Newbie

3 posts

Tuesday 31st May 2005 at 03:26

I've visited this site for quite awhile, just never really got around to posting. It's a damn good site, nice technique section and what not.

First off, I'm considerably better on the ground than stand-up. I love Jiu-Jitsu and the ground game but in response to the actually initial thread question he said on the street. Taking this into account I would use wrestling/bjj to get up back to my feet safetly if I were to slip, or otherwise end up on the ground on the street.

No offense meant to anyone but to solely depend on Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu (or any other primarily ground based martial art) is putting your own life in jeopardy, if the situation ever happens to you.

I will say it is very useful to know on the street, but to take someone down in an unpredictable situation, such as a club, is acting out of a misplaced faith in one believe system of combat. I'm sure everyone has heard this before, but if you take the fight to the ground in a situation where you have no friends with you and it is crowded what is to stop the guys friend from booting you in the head with a steel toe boot? Police train BJJ because they cannot legally damage a person in most cases with boxing/muay thai and they need to control the situation. If a Police Officer eyegouged someone, what do you think would happen to his job and the area he worked for?

To say eye-gouges do not work is ridiculous and misinformed, they can also be trained. There is a difference to just poking at someones eye and knowing how to take it out if your life depended on it.

I've seen several guys take a person down in a club only to get jumped by 3-4 of the person's friends. I have seen this several times. I believe in BJJ on the street, but by no means in Muay Thai ineffective, or less effective. I have defended use of guard on the street (If you fall or get taken down. You can reverse position or get to your feet or quickly choke the guy out and get up) but I am sure we can all agree none of us would ever consider it a decent idea to jump guard in a crowded nightclub or in another true streetfight situation.

I agree in most cases biting would be ineffective on the street, with the adrenaline pump. Hell I've since guys take brutal shit and not even react due to adrenaline or angeldust/pcp. But believe me in a life or death situation and you really want to go for that eye he isn't going to have time to say "ouch that hurts I give up" the street is not a schoolyard fight like being in 1st grade.

But you damn well better believe if you take his eye out and all he knows is he can only see out of one eye that is going to get in his head and disrupt his attack.

Also. I don't know how poking a BJJ black belt in the eye at all relates to a street fight.. If you find yourself in a street fight with a BJJ black belt or any other decently trained individual you are having a nightmare or just EXTREMELY badluck.

You should never be "comfortable" on the street to the point of letting your guard down out of arrogance, but you should also not be afraid to the point of not reacting quick enough and getting seriously injured/killed.

For the street you want Muay Thai/Boxing for multiple attackers, wrestling to avoid going down, BJJ to get up safetly. And it would be wise to train the Filipino knife fighting/weapon arts. And yes, carrying a gun wouldn't be such a bad idea aswell.

Nathan

Addict

175 posts

Tuesday 31st May 2005 at 09:30

Good Post! - nice one!

_____________________________