BJJ as sport or art?

IMO bjj has largely become a sportative martial art and has lost a lot or its self defense applications in many clubs. in teh dojo where i attended class there was definitely an emphasis on blocking and controlling the opponent's biceps while on the ground and taking other measures to prevent punches/strikes. however, it seems by enlarge BJJ is now mostly trained with grappling/ competition in mind...is this true in the clubs where you train? isnt its true effectiveness unleashed with vale tudo techniques in mind?

I think it's safe to say it depends where you train. I think there's a lot of clubs these days that advertise the fact that they train BJJ, but the standard is very poor.

true, however I feel its lost its immediate sense of self defense in many clubs because they train for competitions or under competition rules, hence thats how they perform their techniques.

Look for another instructor, it's all about what they see their style for. A great example is my Tae Kwon Do instructor, TKD is a sport style of martial arts, but my instructor trains cops so everything he teaches is street ready and tested.

My BJJ teacher was the same way. Lots of people want to learn BJJ because they are UFC fans.

Im an Ass!

I think that's a fair point. Eventhough I've never been swimming, I've studied the theories of every possible swimming technique, and practised them whilst balanced on a chair.

I feel supremely confident that if I challenge the swimmers that are in training for the next olympics, I shall defeat them all, because they are only performing techniques that are legal in a swimming competition. Techniques such as my advanced doggy paddle, and my combination of the front crawl legs, and breast stroke arms are illegal in competitions.

I just hope I don't panic or swallow water the first time I get in the pool.

I see what you are trying to say without actually saying it, spider.

complete idiot???

Do you think getting in a pool once a week would help me swim?

kill me now!

Let me make sure I have the argument correct... Those who train BJJ to compete are not able to use the same techniques to protect themselves in a real life self-defense situation. Correct? To add to the swimming analogy you would then say a swimmer who trains to compete would not be able to survive if he/she fell off a boat in the ocean. Sharks and Jelly Fish aside, I think they would have a better chance that someone who didn't train at all. Is BJJ the be-all/end-all in street fighting... No but it would definitely help. Andy talks about needing proper training, but doesn't want it broke down into segments so he can learn the technique properly? Whether you train for self defense or competition, you are training and using techniques that would work in the real world. You never know how your going to handle a fight until you fight. But you can almost guarantee that you will fight how you are trained... you just hope it is better than the other guys training!

Well, first off I completely understand that the way you train is the way you fight. But i'm saying training strictly for mats with a gi and having no considerations toward defending 'illegal techniques', you jiujitsu will not be as effective as it can

That's fine, but there appears to be this thinking that just because someone trains in BJJ or MMA, that they don't ever think about illegal techniques, that's just complete madness.

Just because someone trains in a traditional art doesn't mean they're the only ones to have ever thought about dodgy techniques, or what to do against them, or even trained against them or for them.