BJJ as sport or art?

Author	Comments
Kung-Fu Spectator 31 posts	Friday 4th May 2007 at 01:01 IMO bjj has largely become a sportative martial art and has lost a lot or its self defense applications in many clubs. in teh dojo where i attended class there was definitely an emphasis on blocking and controlling the opponent's biceps while on the ground and taking other measures to prevent punches/strikes. however, it seems by enlarge BJJ is now mostly trained with grappling/ competition in mind...is this true in the clubs where you train? isnt its true effectiveness unleashed with vale tudo techniques in mind? Fu Jow Pai Kung Fu, Gracie Jiu Jitsu, Boxing "He who conquers men has force, he who conquers himself is truly strong." -Lao Tzu
Robsco 1319 posts	Friday 4th May 2007 at 18:03 I think it's safe to say it depends where you train. I think there's a lot of clubs these days that advertise the fact that they train BJJ, but the standard is very poor. The Admin Guy
Kung-Fu Spectator 31 posts	Sunday 6th May 2007 at 15:30 true, however I feel its lost its immediate sense of self defense in many clubs because they train for competitions or under competition rules, hence thats how they perform their techniques. Fu Jow Pai Kung Fu, Gracie Jiu Jitsu, Boxing "He who conquers men has force, he who conquers himself is truly strong." -Lao Tzu
ninja9578 Regular 92 posts	Sunday 6th May 2007 at 22:26 Look for another instructor, it's all about what they see their style for. A great example is my Tae Kwon Do instructor, TKD is a sport style of martial arts, but my instructor trains cops so everything he teaches is street ready and tested. My BJJ teacher was the same way. Lots of people want to learn BJJ because they are UFC fans. Blue Belt - Gracie JJ 3rd Degree Black Belt - Shorin Ryu Red Belt w/ two stripes - Soo Bahk Do
AndyMolyneux Spectator 9 posts	Thursday 31st May 2007 at 11:35 Im an Ass!
spider Regular 235 posts	Wednesday 6th June 2007 at 10:58 I think that's a fair point. Eventhough I've never been swimming, I've studied the theories of every possible swimming technique, and practised them whilst balanced on a chair. I feel supremely confident that if I challenge the swimmers that are in training for the next olympics, I shall defeat them all, because they are only performing techniques that are legal in a swimming competition. Techniques such as my advanced doggy paddle, and my combination of the front crawl legs, and breast stroke arms are illegal in competitions. I just hope I don't panic or swallow water the first time I get in the pool.
AndyMolyneux Spectator 9 posts	Wednesday 6th June 2007 at 11:52 I see what you are trying to say without actually saying it, spider.
AndyMolyneux Spectator 9 posts	Wednesday 6th June 2007 at 11:55 complete idiot???
spider Regular 235 posts	Wednesday 6th June 2007 at 12:32 Do you think getting in a pool once a week would help me swim?
AndyMolyneux Spectator 9 posts	Thursday 7th June 2007 at 16:02 kill me now!
Jitsu-Jew Newbie 11 posts	Saturday 23rd June 2007 at 16:00 Let me make sure I have the argument correct... Those who train BJJ to compete are not able to use the same techniques to protect themselves in a real life self-defense situation. Correct? To add to the swimming analogy you would then say a swimmer who trains to compete would not be able to survive if he/she fell off a boat in the ocean. Sharks and Jelly Fish aside, I think they would have a better chance that someone who didn't train at all. Is BJJ the be-all/end-all in street fighting... No but it would definitely help. Andy talks about needing proper training, but doesn't want it broke down into segments so he can learn the technique properly? Whether you train for self defense or competition, you are training and using techniques that would work in the real world. You never know how your going to handle a fight until you fight. But you can almost guarantee that you will fight how you are trained... you just hope it is better than the other guys training! Your toughest opponent is always your best effort.
Kung-Fu Spectator 31 posts	Monday 25th June 2007 at 03:16 Well, first off I completely understand that the way you train is the way you fight. But i'm saying training strictly for mats with a gi and having no considerations toward defending 'illegal techniques', you jiujitsu will not be as effective as it can Fu Jow Pai Kung Fu, Gracie Jiu Jitsu, Boxing "He who conquers men has force, he who conquers himself is truly strong." -Lao Tzu
Robsco 1319 posts	Monday 25th June 2007 at 18:42 That's fine, but there appears to be this thinking that just because someone trains in BJJ or MMA, that they don't ever think about illegal techniques, that's just complete madness. Just because someone trains in a traditional art doesn't mean they're the only ones to have ever thought about dodgy techniques, or what to do against them, or even trained against them or for them. The Admin Guy

Author

Comments

Spectator

31 posts

Friday 4th May 2007 at 01:01

IMO bjj has largely become a sportative martial art and has lost a lot or its self defense applications in many clubs. in teh dojo where i attended class there was definitely an emphasis on blocking and controlling the opponent's biceps while on the ground and taking other measures to prevent punches/strikes. however, it seems by enlarge BJJ is now mostly trained with grappling/ competition in mind...is this true in the clubs where you train? isnt its true effectiveness unleashed with vale tudo techniques in mind?

Fu Jow Pai Kung Fu, Gracie Jiu Jitsu, Boxing

"He who conquers men has force, he who conquers himself is truly strong." -Lao Tzu

Robsco

1319 posts

Friday 4th May 2007 at 18:03

I think it's safe to say it depends where you train. I think there's a lot of clubs these days that advertise the fact that they train BJJ, but the standard is very poor.

The Admin Guy

Kung-Fu

Spectator

31 posts

Sunday 6th May 2007 at 15:30

true, however I feel its lost its immediate sense of self defense in many clubs because they train for competitions or under competition rules, hence thats how they perform their techniques.

Fu Jow Pai Kung Fu, Gracie Jiu Jitsu, Boxing

"He who conquers men has force, he who conquers himself is truly strong." -Lao Tzu

ninja9578

Regular

92 posts

Sunday 6th May 2007 at 22:26

Look for another instructor, it's all about what they see their style for. A great example is my Tae Kwon Do instructor, TKD is a sport style of martial arts, but my instructor trains cops so everything he teaches is street ready and tested.

My BJJ teacher was the same way. Lots of people want to learn BJJ because they are UFC fans.

Blue Belt - Gracie JJ
3rd Degree Black Belt - Shorin Ryu
Red Belt w/ two stripes - Soo Bahk Do

AndyMolyneux

Spectator

9 posts

Thursday 31st May 2007 at 11:35

Im an Ass!

spider

Regular

235 posts

Wednesday 6th June 2007 at 10:58

I think that's a fair point. Eventhough I've never been swimming, I've studied the theories of every possible swimming technique, and practised them whilst balanced on a chair.

I feel supremely confident that if I challenge the swimmers that are in training for the next olympics, I shall defeat them all, because they are only performing techniques that are legal in a swimming competition. Techniques such as my advanced doggy paddle, and my combination of the front crawl legs, and breast stroke arms are illegal in competitions.

I just hope I don't panic or swallow water the first time I get in the pool.

AndyMolyneux

Spectator

9 posts

Wednesday 6th June 2007 at 11:52

I see what you are trying to say without actually saying it, spider.

AndyMolyneux

Spectator

9 posts

Wednesday 6th June 2007 at 11:55

complete idiot???

spider

Regular

235 posts

Wednesday 6th June 2007 at 12:32

Do you think getting in a pool once a week would help me swim?

AndyMolyneux

Spectator

9 posts

Thursday 7th June 2007 at 16:02

kill me now!

Jitsu-Jew

Newbie

11 posts

Saturday 23rd June 2007 at 16:00

Let me make sure I have the argument correct... Those who train BJJ to compete are not able to use the same techniques to protect themselves in a real life self-defense situation. Correct? To add to the swimming analogy you would then say a swimmer who trains to compete would not be able to survive if he/she fell off a boat in the ocean. Sharks and Jelly Fish aside, I think they would have a better chance that someone who didn't train at all. Is BJJ the be-all/end-all in street fighting... No but it would definitely help. Andy talks about needing proper training, but doesn't want it broke down into segments so he can learn the technique properly? Whether you train for self defense or competition, you are training and using techniques that would work in the real world. You never know how your going to handle a fight until you fight. But you can almost guarantee that you will fight how you are trained... you just hope it is better than the other guys training!

Your toughest opponent is always your best effort.

Kung-Fu

Spectator

31 posts

Monday 25th June 2007 at 03:16

Well, first off I completely understand that the way you train is the way you fight. But i'm saying training strictly for mats with a gi and having no considerations toward defending 'illegal techniques', you jiujitsu will not be as effective as it can

Fu Jow Pai Kung Fu, Gracie Jiu Jitsu, Boxing

"He who conquers men has force, he who conquers himself is truly strong." -Lao Tzu

Robsco

1319 posts

Monday 25th June 2007 at 18:42

That's fine, but there appears to be this thinking that just because someone trains in BJJ or MMA, that they don't ever think about illegal techniques, that's just complete madness.

Just because someone trains in a traditional art doesn't mean they're the only ones to have ever thought about dodgy techniques, or what to do against them, or even trained against them or for them.

The Admin Guy