Pain During Lessons

Author	Comments
Jasper Spectator 20 posts	Tuesday 29th May 2007 at 19:16 Being new to Ju Jitsu I just thought I'd ask the forum about levels of pain pupils should experience during classes..?
spider Regular 235 posts	Tuesday 29th May 2007 at 22:22 You need to be a bit more specific? If you are talking about injuries, you need to seek further advice, I experienced back pain from lifting people incorrectly. As for pain in result of a lock or submission, it is entirely necessary for you to realise the pain that can be inflicted, and where peoples limits are. For people to practise locks that do not inflict pain, they are not actually practising the locks. You need to know how much force to apply that will enable you to control a person, and an idea of how much would be leading to a break. In a worst case scenario, and I've mentioned this before; if you have a practise partner that submits or gives in early to a technique of yours, you will think you have more control over a person you are fighting that you actually have, and you may end up with your head kicked in as a result.
Jasper Spectator 20 posts	Saturday 2nd June 2007 at 07:20 Well I was thinking more along the lines of learning technique e.g the correct procedure for the application of the locks and the execution of subsequent moves. Primarily I do not think the pupil should have to endure extreme pain only enough to give his\her partner an idea of the forces used in the execution of the ju jitsu moves. The idea of pain is to get a hostile force such as an attacker to cease his attack thus giving you control over an opposing force. In a classroom situation there is no opposing hostile force therefore no need for extreme wrist locks, leg locks etc. The beginner also should realise and the instructor especially also should realise that the appliction of a lock should be practised lightly enabling and allowing the pupil to work that area and be fully aware of his surroundings and not just apply wristlock and execute move. People also have to work and injuries do occur and extra care should be taken especially when handling body joints- an injury to an elbow or wrist or ankle joint can take a long time to heal....!?
Bee Regular 33 posts	Monday 4th June 2007 at 12:42 I`m with Spider on this one.You have to feel the pain to appreciate what you are doing. I make my opponent/Uki apply the lock before i tap. The pain gives you the controlling factor. If you are locked up correctly you don`t want to move much or it hurts more.You are under their control. If you are not experiencing the pain, they are just holding on to you. Does your brain concentrate on the pain..and how to stop it getting worse. Or can you concentrate on your next defensive / offensive move. You don`t have to damage someone every time you lock them up. As long as you are well versed in the art of tapping (as i am) you can avoid excess pain and possible injury. Make it as real life as you can. "Bee"
spider Regular 235 posts	Tuesday 5th June 2007 at 12:45 Obviously everything within reason, if you feel that the force is excessive, then maybe you should talk to your instructor. Personally I find that discomfort from wrist locks and chokes accumulative. For instance, your right wrist shouldn't be getting nailed for an entire evening. Perhaps after a while, exercises need to be varied to prevent injury, and also to aid training. You might be programming your own body, but you also might be programming your opponents. Last but not least; I understand the importance of going easy on beginners, and working up to speed, strength and fluidity, but your final aim is assumed to be able to control an opposing force. In order to prepare for this, I can't stress enough that you need to train with it. Any training in the world, the aim is to make the training as effective as possible, and the usual approach is to make the training as real as possible.
tafster Newbie 9 posts	Wednesday 6th June 2007 at 12:44 I agree with spider's view that pain accumulates as a specific body part is targeted over an extended period. When working with a beginner I won't tap unless the technique is properly applied as I don't see the point in bad habits being picked up for the sake of ease and apply techniques on beginners more gently but make sure that they feel the technique for a better understanding of what it is doing.
Jasper Spectator 20 posts	Wednesday 6th June 2007 at 12:49 To understand pain is to understand your limits.... I reckon knowing your threshhold of pain and what a person can reasonably endure in a given position will ultimately give you that fraction of a second more time, essential sometimes when in a position and looking to make a move with another free part of your body... Also an advantage when your opponent is perhaps thinking his lock is not applied correctly causing him to release and provide you with another option, something worth considering in the martial arts game.

Author

Comments

Jasper

Spectator

20 posts

Tuesday 29th May 2007 at 19:16

Being new to Ju Jitsu I just thought I'd ask the forum about levels of pain pupils should experience during classes..?

spider

Regular

235 posts

Tuesday 29th May 2007 at 22:22

You need to be a bit more specific?
If you are talking about injuries, you need to seek further advice, I experienced back pain from lifting people incorrectly.

As for pain in result of a lock or submission, it is entirely necessary for you to realise the pain that can be inflicted, and where peoples limits are. For people to practise locks that do not inflict pain, they are not actually practising the locks. You need to know how much force to apply that will enable you to control a person, and an idea of how much would be leading to a break.

In a worst case scenario, and I've mentioned this before; if you have a practise partner that submits or gives in early to a technique of yours, you will think you have more control over a person you are fighting that you actually have, and you may end up with your head kicked in as a result.

Jasper

Spectator

20 posts

Saturday 2nd June 2007 at 07:20

Well I was thinking more along the lines of learning technique e.g the correct procedure for the application of the locks and the execution of subsequent moves.
Primarily I do not think the pupil should have to endure extreme pain only enough to give his\her partner an idea of the forces used in the execution of the ju jitsu moves.
The idea of pain is to get a hostile force such as an attacker to cease his attack thus giving you control over an opposing force.
In a classroom situation there is no opposing hostile force therefore no need for extreme wrist locks, leg locks etc. The beginner also should realise and the instructor especially also should realise that the appliction of a lock should be practised lightly enabling and allowing the pupil to work that area and be fully aware of his surroundings and not just apply wristlock and execute move.
People also have to work and injuries do occur and extra care should be taken especially when handling body joints- an injury to an elbow or wrist or ankle joint can take a long time to heal....!?

Bee

Regular

33 posts

Monday 4th June 2007 at 12:42

I`m with Spider on this one.You have to feel the pain to appreciate what you are doing. I make my opponent/Uki apply the lock before i tap. The pain gives you the controlling factor. If you are locked up correctly you don`t want to move much or it hurts more.You are under their control. If you are not experiencing the pain, they are just holding on to you. Does your brain concentrate on the pain..and how to stop it getting worse. Or can you concentrate on your next defensive / offensive move. You don`t have to damage someone every time you lock them up. As long as you are well versed in the art of tapping (as i am) you can avoid excess pain and possible injury. Make it as real life as you can.

"Bee"

spider

Regular

235 posts

Tuesday 5th June 2007 at 12:45

Obviously everything within reason, if you feel that the force is excessive, then maybe you should talk to your instructor.

Personally I find that discomfort from wrist locks and chokes accumulative. For instance, your right wrist shouldn't be getting nailed for an entire evening. Perhaps after a while, exercises need to be varied to prevent injury, and also to aid training. You might be programming your own body, but you also might be programming your opponents.

Last but not least; I understand the importance of going easy on beginners, and working up to speed, strength and fluidity, but your final aim is assumed to be able to control an opposing force. In order to prepare for this, I can't stress enough that you need to train with it. Any training in the world, the aim is to make the training as effective as possible, and the usual approach is to make the training as real as possible.

tafster

Newbie

9 posts

Wednesday 6th June 2007 at 12:44

I agree with spider's view that pain accumulates as a specific body part is targeted over an extended period.

When working with a beginner I won't tap unless the technique is properly applied as I don't see the point in bad habits being picked up for the sake of ease and apply techniques on beginners more gently but make sure that they feel the technique for a better understanding of what it is doing.

Jasper

Spectator

20 posts

Wednesday 6th June 2007 at 12:49

To understand pain is to understand your limits....

I reckon knowing your threshhold of pain and what a person can reasonably endure in a given position will ultimately give you that fraction of a second more time, essential sometimes when in a position and looking to make a move with another free part of your body...
Also an advantage when your opponent is perhaps thinking his lock is not applied correctly causing him to release and provide you with another option, something worth considering in the martial arts game.