Ju - Jitsu Compared to Taekwondo

Author	Comments
Marcus Spectator 4 posts	Sunday 2nd December 2007 at 14:02 I want to start doing Martials arts to learn self defence and to keep fit.I have found a Ju Jitsu club near to me.Previously I have done Taekwondo for 3 months,I just wanted to know how Ju Jitsu compares to taekwondo.The Taekwondo club I went to made you practise all the forms for most of the lessons.I felt it would take years before what I was being taught would help me defend myself in a dangerous situation,any feedback appreciated
Robsco 1319 posts	Sunday 2nd December 2007 at 16:20 From what I've seen, Tae Kwon Do concentrates on punches and 'fancy' kicks. Traditional Ju-Jitsu teaches all sorts, punches, kicks, throws, grappling, weapons, etc, obviously depending on the club. Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu concentrates more on the grappling side of things. Both arts seem to be a lot more self-defence related when compared to Tae Kwon Do, which is ok for competition, but if confronted on the streets, you wouldn't really want to rely on some snazzy high kick. The Admin Guy
ninja9578 Regular 92 posts	Monday 3rd December 2007 at 02:06 Depending on the teacher you have, tae kwon do can be good for self defense. My instructor trains cops. Blue Belt - Gracie JJ 3rd Degree Black Belt - Shorin Ryu Red Belt w/ two stripes - Soo Bahk Do
Robsco 1319 posts	Monday 3rd December 2007 at 02:48 Does he just teach pure Tae Kwon Do to the cops? or a variety of styles/techniques? Not putting the art down, but i'd be surprised if cops were being taught just pure Tae Kwon Do. The Admin Guy
Marcus Spectator 4 posts	Monday 3rd December 2007 at 19:12 So if I want to learn a martial art which is great for self defence,if confronted on the streets like Robsco mention, would Ju Jitsu be one of the best styles of martial arts to learn.
ninja9578 Regular 92 posts	Monday 3rd December 2007 at 19:31 Yes, you want something that is good for defending punches and kicks, but also allows you to get up if tackled. Yes, what he teaches is pure tae kwon do. It's a Chung Do Kwan style of tae kwon do, purely for self defense, no olympic style sparring (although we do have tournaments like that.) Blue Belt - Gracie JJ 3rd Degree Black Belt - Shorin Ryu Red Belt w/ two stripes - Soo Bahk Do
Prof. Akers Spectator 15 posts	Tuesday 4th December 2007 at 14:50 Now, I'm going to sound like that Len or Les- whoever from Strictly Jigging about. I've got a 7th dan in Jujitsu + a 6th in Tae Kwon Do so perhaps I can shed some light here. DON'T LEARN TWO MARTIAL ARTS TOGETHER - EVER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Learn one - any one, up to brown belt at least. What I do is encourage my students to go look around when they've got a brown belt, by this time they know our system and should be competent enough not to show themselves (or us- me) up. If you love martial arts admit your going to be doing a long time, in my case it feels like there were dinosaurs running about(or is that just me?). You all have years ahead of you, no one system has all the answers - hell some don't even ask the right questions but they are still worthy. Yes, I am talking about Tai Chi and all that sticky hands stuff but even 'soft styles are worth learning to widen your own knowledge base I know I teach meditation and chi gung but they wouldn't be my first choice in the pub/ring. Damn I'm dribbling again, nurse, NURSE take me back to the home.
Marcus Spectator 4 posts	Tuesday 4th December 2007 at 17:12 Prof Akers,so in your opinion would Ju Jitsu be one of the better martial arts to learn if I want to learn a street style self defence.
Prof. Akers Spectator 15 posts	Tuesday 4th December 2007 at 19:34 I sometimes feel as though I've taken all that money under false pretenses, no amount of classes will make you a fighter - sorry but that's the truth. It may help you survive by getting you through situations where you may have gone down, equally it could kill you! Scenario: You are walking home, some guy jumps out shouting, "Give your F***g phone now." Being you now, you give him the phone and live. Same scenario 6 months into training: "Give me your f***g phone." "No, come and get it," you say. He takes the phone and your best shot, carves you up like a Xmas turkey and your Granny vomits every time she looks at your scarred face. Same scenario, different outcome: "Come and get it," you say. These are your last words. Ever been stabbed - I haven't either but my students who have been tell me you can't tell, it's like a really hard punch. I've been cut taking knives off people though and that hurts like buggery (well not really like buggery but you know what I mean. Ask the guys here about fighting and schools that 'pressure test' students. Do an art for arts' sake, find a real fighting (jujitsu, muay thai, boxing even) school to fight in the street.
spider Regular 235 posts	Tuesday 4th December 2007 at 21:13 A class in which you are allowed to fight will make you a fighter. I can understand your point about studying one martial art at a time, I attended a karate school that had a strict rule against it. However, I see no real reason why a person of average or higher intelligence can't learn more than one martial art at a time if they are able to dedicate enough time to each. Back to the question, it depends on the classes. If your traditional Jujitsu class only teaches line dancing, and techniques needed for your next grade, but your Tae Kwon Do class allows for full contact fighting, then the TKD will make you a better fighter. If your TKD only allows kata, line dancing and syllabus study, whilst your Brazilian Jiujitsu allows you to fight, then the reverse would be true. If neither allow you to fight, or you are not interested in fighting, then I would argue that Traditional Jujitsu would have the fuller syllabus for self defence situations.
Marcus Spectator 4 posts	Tuesday 4th December 2007 at 23:33 Prof Akers,your last post makes a lot of sense.When you gave the example of walking home and someone tries and jumps you for your phone.I thought of the old saying of a little knowledge is dangerous.I dont want to fight in the streets.I just want to learn a martial art that will help me defend myself if the situation arises.I am going to go and check out my local club and meet the instructor and have a chat with him
Prof. Akers Spectator 15 posts	Wednesday 5th December 2007 at 19:48 At on time I taught CQB to the RAF Regiment as a civilian instructor and we had some good scraps, in order to 'pass out' the squaddies had to go round the town and actually engage in a fight! Not difficult on a Saturday night in that area, the rules were you could only react if challenged. In other words, no walking up to some helpless drunk or shivering pussy and belting 7 shades out of them, it had to be someone looking for a scrap. Every now and again we (the instructors) used to get challenged ourselves! One of the instructors and I had one of those touchy (not that way you perv) relationships and sure enough on night it kicked off. his was in my competition days so I was fit,switched on and ready to rumble, trouble was I was switched on to kumite and he was switched on to CQB. It was about 3 months before I could walk without limping and a yearbefore I could put any weight on the kneecap he kindly removed. Never,ever confuse any form kumite/sparring/ full contact or ideed any form of fighting where there are rules with serious fighting. Knee kicking, biting, gouging, testicle slaps and removal, eye pokes, spitting are generally difficult to practice in a class format; even 'animal nights' have rules - they have to otherwise someone gets injured. Traditional Okinawan karate is lethal, no high kicks, no spins,no jumps, just serious mano a mano testicular enhancement - evything we do comes from that startpoint.
puertorican_fighter Spectator 15 posts	Monday 7th April 2008 at 01:16 some tae kwon do instructors teach a different type of TKD, kinda like MMA... I find it more interesting then just regular TKD your greatest enemy will always be, YOURSELF
Jeff Spectator 14 posts	Monday 7th April 2008 at 12:40 A couple of things about this conversation: 1) ANY art that has a high percentage of prescribed techniques or forms within it is by its very nature less conflict/combat applicable than an art that is more organic and "free". The patterns of Tae Kwon Do are beautiful, complex, and demanding; those who attain a high degree of skill in the performance of the forms should be respected and applauded. However, it seems to me that there is a simple "acid test" of kata and prescribed techniques (by prescribed I mean the kind of thing seen in too many Self-Defence and Ju-Jitsu clubs - other than BJJ clubs - where it's a case of "he attacks with this, and you respond with this". We were very guilty of this in the late 70's early 80's in the old B.J.J.A.(almost everything was a defence against a hook punch to the head). The acid test is this: Boxers stand to win (or lose) gazillllions of dollars when they fight. If standing on one leg in "the monkey feeding the crane a grape" stance added something to their armoury or repertoire they'd be doing it. There are no rules in boxing to say you can't stand on one leg! But, no-one does it, because it simply doesn't help. There are no pattern, katas or forms in Muay-Thai and Boxing because they are irrelevant to the actual job at hand, which is giving leather and not taking it. Kata are superb, but they are an expression of art, intelligence and skill. They should not be confused with the ability to fight or - more importantly - the preparation for a fight. 2) Regarding Prof. Akers' input: I have to disagree Sir, traditional Okinawan Karate is NOT lethal. BUT some of it's exponents ARE - and therein lies the rub! You can take almost any system/art and put an exceptional student into it, and the art becomes more truthful, because of the inate understanding and intelligence some people bring to their training. Okinawan Karate is as flawed as any other system. Tae Kwon Do is equally flawed, most Ju-Jitsu sytems too - simply because they are not fluid and honest enough. Does that mean that I'd invite you for a round or two? Absolutely not! Why? Because you might just be that exceptional exponent I mentioned earlier -the one with the insight, intelligence and the understanding, the one who can make the system work, and you might therefore give me a spanking! 3)I think your advice about not training in two arts simultaneously would have been right a few years ago, but is - and I say this with great respect - wrong now. More and more, students are being encouraged to bring their experiences, ability and insight (the ability and insight they possessed before they ever heard of TKD or JKD or Krav Maga or anything else)into the Dojo (certainly into mine, and the Dojos of the people I have the greatest respect for in the martial arts). We as instructors must never underestimate the intelligence of our students, nor must we invalidate their ability to experience/witness the life around them. Many, many people are capable of learning more than one art or system at the same time. ESPECIALLY if the arts they've chose to learn are organic and free (i.e. not containing ritualised, constrictive, or stylised movements). An example: One of the finest students I've taught in donkeys years trains with us (Master Sawyer's Goshin-Ryu Ju-Jitsu) and in Commando Krav Maga. The two fit together like a dream (in HIS hands). Give those two diverse demands to someone else who doesn't "get it" and the results may well be diminished. But it's everybody's right to find that out for themselves. Regarding Spiders input: what you say about a club allowing you to fight making you a fighter? ABSOLUTELY! My concern though is that there are more and more groups teaching how to have a row, without also instilling a "code" - a code of ethics, a code of conduct etc. I've seen this more and more frequently lately. Really capable fighters are being manufactured and then "let loose". I've experienced this mostly with m.m.a. students (although by no means with all of them or even a majority of them). Any opinions? Love and respect, Jeff Sawyer
puertorican_fighter Spectator 15 posts	Tuesday 8th April 2008 at 00:07 props to jeff... he really has time to type lol your greatest enemy will always be, YOURSELF
ninja9578 Regular 92 posts	Wednesday 9th April 2008 at 18:10 @puertorican: you're referring to the older styles of TKD which I mentioned early, they were actually used for self defense. "Regular" TKD as you put it is just a game of points, those fancy kicks and punches are useless for self defense. No martial art style is complete, they all have limits and areas where they are the best. From what I've seen Judo has the best throws, BJJ has the best grappling, Krav Maga has the best weaponry defense, and Muay Thai has the best strikes. Learning all of that would just be overwhelming for a student. A good teacher will focus on their styles but occasionally demonstrate other effective techniques too. Blue Belt - Gracie JJ 3rd Degree Black Belt - Shorin Ryu Red Belt w/ two stripes - Soo Bahk Do

Author

Comments

Spectator

4 posts

Sunday 2nd December 2007 at 14:02

I want to start doing Martials arts to learn self defence and to keep fit.I have found a Ju Jitsu club near to me.Previously I have done Taekwondo for 3 months,I just wanted to know how Ju Jitsu compares to taekwondo.The Taekwondo club I went to made you practise all the forms for most of the lessons.I felt it would take years before what I was being taught would help me defend myself in a dangerous situation,any feedback appreciated

Robsco

1319 posts

Sunday 2nd December 2007 at 16:20

From what I've seen, Tae Kwon Do concentrates on punches and 'fancy' kicks.

Traditional Ju-Jitsu teaches all sorts, punches, kicks, throws, grappling, weapons, etc, obviously depending on the club.

Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu concentrates more on the grappling side of things.

Both arts seem to be a lot more self-defence related when compared to Tae Kwon Do, which is ok for competition, but if confronted on the streets, you wouldn't really want to rely on some snazzy high kick.

The Admin Guy

ninja9578

Regular

92 posts

Monday 3rd December 2007 at 02:06

Depending on the teacher you have, tae kwon do can be good for self defense. My instructor trains cops.

Blue Belt - Gracie JJ
3rd Degree Black Belt - Shorin Ryu
Red Belt w/ two stripes - Soo Bahk Do

Robsco

1319 posts

Monday 3rd December 2007 at 02:48

Does he just teach pure Tae Kwon Do to the cops? or a variety of styles/techniques?

Not putting the art down, but i'd be surprised if cops were being taught just pure Tae Kwon Do.

The Admin Guy

Marcus

Spectator

4 posts

Monday 3rd December 2007 at 19:12

So if I want to learn a martial art which is great for self defence,if confronted on the streets like Robsco mention, would Ju Jitsu be one of the best styles of martial arts to learn.

ninja9578

Regular

92 posts

Monday 3rd December 2007 at 19:31

Yes, you want something that is good for defending punches and kicks, but also allows you to get up if tackled.

Yes, what he teaches is pure tae kwon do. It's a Chung Do Kwan style of tae kwon do, purely for self defense, no olympic style sparring (although we do have tournaments like that.)

Blue Belt - Gracie JJ
3rd Degree Black Belt - Shorin Ryu
Red Belt w/ two stripes - Soo Bahk Do

Prof. Akers

Spectator

15 posts

Tuesday 4th December 2007 at 14:50

Now, I'm going to sound like that Len or Les- whoever from Strictly Jigging about.
I've got a 7th dan in Jujitsu + a 6th in Tae Kwon Do so perhaps I can shed some light here.
DON'T LEARN TWO MARTIAL ARTS TOGETHER - EVER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Learn one - any one, up to brown belt at least. What I do is encourage my students to go look around when they've got a brown belt, by this time they know our system and should be competent enough not to show themselves (or us- me) up.
If you love martial arts admit your going to be doing a long time, in my case it feels like there were dinosaurs running about(or is that just me?).
You all have years ahead of you, no one system has all the answers - hell some don't even ask the right questions but they are still worthy.
Yes, I am talking about Tai Chi and all that sticky hands stuff but even 'soft styles are worth learning to widen your own knowledge base
I know I teach meditation and chi gung but they wouldn't be my first choice in the pub/ring.
Damn I'm dribbling again, nurse, NURSE take me back to the home.

Marcus

Spectator

4 posts

Tuesday 4th December 2007 at 17:12

Prof Akers,so in your opinion would Ju Jitsu be one of the better martial arts to learn if I want to learn a street style self defence.

Prof. Akers

Spectator

15 posts

Tuesday 4th December 2007 at 19:34

I sometimes feel as though I've taken all that money under false pretenses, no amount of classes will make you a fighter - sorry but that's the truth.
It may help you survive by getting you through situations where you may have gone down, equally it could kill you!
Scenario:
You are walking home, some guy jumps out shouting, "Give your F*****g phone now."
Being you now, you give him the phone and live.
Same scenario 6 months into training:
"Give me your f*****g phone."
"No, come and get it," you say.
He takes the phone and your best shot, carves you up like a Xmas turkey and your Granny vomits every time she looks at your scarred face.
Same scenario, different outcome:
"Come and get it," you say.
These are your last words.
Ever been stabbed - I haven't either but my students who have been tell me you can't tell, it's like a really hard punch.
I've been cut taking knives off people though and that hurts like buggery (well not really like buggery but you know what I mean.
Ask the guys here about fighting and schools that 'pressure test' students.
Do an art for arts' sake, find a real fighting (jujitsu, muay thai, boxing even) school to fight in the street.

spider

Regular

235 posts

Tuesday 4th December 2007 at 21:13

A class in which you are allowed to fight will make you a fighter.

I can understand your point about studying one martial art at a time, I attended a karate school that had a strict rule against it. However, I see no real reason why a person of average or higher intelligence can't learn more than one martial art at a time if they are able to dedicate enough time to each.

Back to the question, it depends on the classes. If your traditional Jujitsu class only teaches line dancing, and techniques needed for your next grade, but your Tae Kwon Do class allows for full contact fighting, then the TKD will make you a better fighter. If your TKD only allows kata, line dancing and syllabus study, whilst your Brazilian Jiujitsu allows you to fight, then the reverse would be true.

If neither allow you to fight, or you are not interested in fighting, then I would argue that Traditional Jujitsu would have the fuller syllabus for self defence situations.

Marcus

Spectator

4 posts

Tuesday 4th December 2007 at 23:33

Prof Akers,your last post makes a lot of sense.When you gave the example of walking home and someone tries and jumps you for your phone.I thought of the old saying of a little knowledge is dangerous.I dont want to fight in the streets.I just want to learn a martial art that will help me defend myself if the situation arises.I am going to go and check out my local club and meet the instructor and have a chat with him

Prof. Akers

Spectator

15 posts

Wednesday 5th December 2007 at 19:48

At on time I taught CQB to the RAF Regiment as a civilian instructor and we had some good scraps, in order to 'pass out' the squaddies had to go round the town and actually engage in a fight!
Not difficult on a Saturday night in that area, the rules were you could only react if challenged. In other words, no walking up to some helpless drunk or shivering pussy and belting 7 shades out of them, it had to be someone looking for a scrap.
Every now and again we (the instructors) used to get challenged ourselves!
One of the instructors and I had one of those touchy (not that way you perv) relationships and sure enough on night it kicked off.
his was in my competition days so I was fit,switched on and ready to rumble, trouble was I was switched on to kumite and he was switched on to CQB.
It was about 3 months before I could walk without limping and a yearbefore I could put any weight on the kneecap he kindly removed.
Never,ever confuse any form kumite/sparring/ full contact or ideed any form of fighting where there are rules with serious fighting.
Knee kicking, biting, gouging, testicle slaps and removal, eye pokes, spitting are generally difficult to practice in a class format; even 'animal nights' have rules - they have to otherwise someone gets injured.
Traditional Okinawan karate is lethal, no high kicks, no spins,no jumps, just serious mano a mano testicular enhancement - evything we do comes from that startpoint.

puertorican_fighter

Spectator

15 posts

Monday 7th April 2008 at 01:16

some tae kwon do instructors teach a different type of TKD, kinda like MMA... I find it more interesting then just regular TKD

your greatest enemy will always be, YOURSELF

Jeff

Spectator

14 posts

Monday 7th April 2008 at 12:40

A couple of things about this conversation:

1) ANY art that has a high percentage of prescribed techniques or forms within it is by its very nature less conflict/combat applicable than an art that is more organic and "free". The patterns of Tae Kwon Do are beautiful, complex, and demanding; those who attain a high degree of skill in the performance of the forms should be respected and applauded. However, it seems to me that there is a simple "acid test" of kata and prescribed techniques (by prescribed I mean the kind of thing seen in too many Self-Defence and Ju-Jitsu clubs - other than BJJ clubs - where it's a case of "he attacks with this, and you respond with this". We were very guilty of this in the late 70's early 80's in the old B.J.J.A.(almost everything was a defence against a hook punch to the head). The acid test is this:

Boxers stand to win (or lose) gazillllions of dollars when they fight. If standing on one leg in "the monkey feeding the crane a grape" stance added something to their armoury or repertoire they'd be doing it. There are no rules in boxing to say you can't stand on one leg!
But, no-one does it, because it simply doesn't help. There are no pattern, katas or forms in Muay-Thai and Boxing because they are irrelevant to the actual job at hand, which is giving leather and not taking it. Kata are superb, but they are an expression of art, intelligence and skill. They should not be confused with the ability to fight or - more importantly - the preparation for a fight.

2) Regarding Prof. Akers' input: I have to disagree Sir, traditional Okinawan Karate is NOT lethal. BUT some of it's exponents ARE - and therein lies the rub!

You can take almost any system/art and put an exceptional student into it, and the art becomes more truthful, because of the inate understanding and intelligence some people bring to their training.
Okinawan Karate is as flawed as any other system. Tae Kwon Do is equally flawed, most Ju-Jitsu sytems too - simply because they are not fluid and honest enough. Does that mean that I'd invite you for a round or two? Absolutely not! Why? Because you might just be that exceptional exponent I mentioned earlier -the one with the insight, intelligence and the understanding, the one who can make the system work, and you might therefore give me a spanking!

3)I think your advice about not training in two arts simultaneously would have been right a few years ago, but is - and I say this with great respect - wrong now. More and more, students are being encouraged to bring their experiences, ability and insight (the ability and insight they possessed before they ever heard of TKD or JKD or Krav Maga or anything else)into the Dojo (certainly into mine, and the Dojos of the people I have the greatest respect for in the martial arts). We as instructors must never underestimate the intelligence of our students, nor must we invalidate their ability to experience/witness the life around them.
Many, many people are capable of learning more than one art or system at the same time. ESPECIALLY if the arts they've chose to learn are organic and free (i.e. not containing ritualised, constrictive, or stylised movements).
An example: One of the finest students I've taught in donkeys years trains with us (Master Sawyer's Goshin-Ryu Ju-Jitsu) and in Commando Krav Maga. The two fit together like a dream (in HIS hands). Give those two diverse demands to someone else who doesn't "get it" and the results may well be diminished. But it's everybody's right to find that out for themselves.

Regarding Spiders input: what you say about a club allowing you to fight making you a fighter? ABSOLUTELY!

My concern though is that there are more and more groups teaching how to have a row, without also instilling a "code" - a code of ethics, a code of conduct etc. I've seen this more and more frequently lately. Really capable fighters are being manufactured and then "let loose". I've experienced this mostly with m.m.a. students (although by no means with all of them or even a majority of them). Any opinions?
Love and respect,

Jeff Sawyer

puertorican_fighter

Spectator

15 posts

Tuesday 8th April 2008 at 00:07

props to jeff... he really has time to type lol

your greatest enemy will always be, YOURSELF

ninja9578

Regular

92 posts

Wednesday 9th April 2008 at 18:10

@puertorican: you're referring to the older styles of TKD which I mentioned early, they were actually used for self defense.

"Regular" TKD as you put it is just a game of points, those fancy kicks and punches are useless for self defense.

No martial art style is complete, they all have limits and areas where they are the best. From what I've seen Judo has the best throws, BJJ has the best grappling, Krav Maga has the best weaponry defense, and Muay Thai has the best strikes.

Learning all of that would just be overwhelming for a student. A good teacher will focus on their styles but occasionally demonstrate other effective techniques too.

Blue Belt - Gracie JJ
3rd Degree Black Belt - Shorin Ryu
Red Belt w/ two stripes - Soo Bahk Do